Wednesday, 5 March 2025

Afga Isolette I - Ilford FP4+

I have waxed lyrical about my fondness for my Agfa Isolette I in the past. They are cheap to buy and a great way into medium format for anyone willing to give it a try. If you want one, the usual caveats apply to any used camera, condition is everything. Avoid the "fungus farms" and buy a nice clean example, which is usually a good sign it has been looked after, as was the case with my Agfa Isolette I when I liberated it from ebay for not much cash.

I really enjoy using my Agfa Isolette I, it's simple to use and has handy red dots for those of us too lazy or not too bothered about getting creative with it. Set your aperture to f/11, distance to 30 feet and snap away! All you need to worry about is your shutter speed. I metered the light with my trusted Gossen Trisix selenium light meter set at 100 iso. The extra 25 iso with FP4+ 125 really makes no difference to it.

I shoot familiar compositions from slightly different angles, and to be fair use mostly the same settings. Shooting at f/11 with the distance at 30 feet gets most stuff from 10 feet to infinity in focus. I adjust the shutter speed and aperture as needed, especially when I get to the shaded woodland paths.

I headed to The Wash and, you probably guessed it already, my old friend the lone tree there. I have enjoyed photographing this tree over the years. It's solitary position gives me a range of angles and I have come to favour a couple, especially on a sunny day. I like to photograph it with my back to the sun or at 90 degrees to the sun, but anywhere between 90 degrees either side is good.

I also took a few shots of the derelict car that is still slowly rusting away. Each time I see it, there's a few more dents and dings thanks to the kids that play on it. Every year it loses a little mass and in the years to come will eventually rust into the ground, but it will still be around for a good while yet.

I headed to the woodland path where there has been a lot of activity over winter. The once muddy bog of a path has been given a complete make over and is now a smooth asphalt path. This has been warmly welcomed by everyone who uses the path regularly and disabled folks who get about on electric buggy's can now enjoy the path too. Drainage from The Wash has been improved, the ditch cleared and routed further from the path.

A lot of the dead trees have been removed too. Ash Die Back has blighted woodlands across the UK and beyond, killing many trees. In most places the dead trees have rotted down into the soil, but in places like our local woodland paths, there were a number of dead trees that were still standing and eventually they would fall.

Before they fell on someone, our local Council invested in having them felled and removed. They also took the plunge and invested in improving the path and I'm glad my local taxes have been used in this way. I photographed a number of trees that line the path and headed on my way to my favourite tree by the farm.

I'm sure a lot of you are probably sick of the sight of my favourite tree, but I'm most certainly not. It's my barometer, my window on the seasons and it is just about to grow it's foliage for 2025. Late February is a magical time as snowdrops dazzle us with their white bell shaped flowers and crocus begin to rise from the ground, ready to bloom in early March.

Through photographing my local countryside over the years, I have developed an appreciation of nature and the pace Mother Nature operates at. It changes by the day, particularly at this time of year as winter comes to a close and spring begins. It also clears away my winter blues and gives me hope for the coming year ahead.

I took my last few photos as I walked along the farm road and headed back towards home. The fields are looking greener as this years crop begins to grow and the Sheep have been moved to their home farm, complete with the few lambs born this year already. I took one last shot through the trees to the houses on the other side of the valley and headed for home and a well earned brew.

It was a few days later when I recovered from my long afternoon walk and I got around to developing my roll of Ilford FP4+ in Kodak HC-110 1+31 dilution B for 8 minutes at 20 celcius and soon had it hanging to dry in my bathroom. I digitised it with my Nikon D700 and Tamron Adaptall 2 90mm f/2.5 macro lens mounted on my K&F Concept tripod. My film was held nice a flat with my Valoi medium format film holder mounted on my Pixl-Latr and illuminated with my A5 sized led light pad. I processed the RAW files with Affinity Photo 2.

As I processed my images I was reminded of the beautiful afternoon that I had yearned for in the first couple of months of 2025. It was a very enjoyable walk, yet totally exhausting. I was, as is usual for me, using more than one camera and having a heck of a lot of fun. My trusty Gossen Trisix got my exposures pretty much dialled in and I didn't have to do too much to them to be fair. Just a little dust removal and spotting out the scratches as well as adjusting the levels to my liking.

Here's a few photos from my wander in the countryside with my Agfa Isolette I on a gloriously sunny afternoon at the back end of February 2025. I love using this camera and it wont be long before it gets another outing. It may even live in the opposite pocket to dear old Baldy The Baldax, ready to go whenever it's needed. As always I have put these photos and more in an album on Flickr for you to view in full resolution via the link below. I hope you enjoy them.







 
 




Wednesday, 26 February 2025

Mini Zines On Sale March 1st 2025

 No full blog this week, I have been busy with my obligations to The PhotoZine Collective, a group of dedicated, like-minded film photographers whose aim is to promote and publish Photo Zines with various themes to guide us.

We have been busy having fun and we have a collection of Mini Zines ready for sale on March 1st via our Ko-Fi site. There are only 12 sets of 17 Mini Zines available which have been lovingly collated and packaged by Ian who put a lot of thought into how to present our fun project, done during the horrid weather we have endured this winter. When a photographer can't get out, it's time to get creative with the photos we have.

Over winter we have also been busy with our annual Photo Zine to raise money for Asthma & Lung UK, a Charity close to John Whitmore's family. As I write this the deadline has passed for submissions and our intrepid editors are busy collating everyone's work ready for publication in the coming months.

I have to be honest, I thought I wasn't going to be able to contribute to this years Zine, but I made a big effort and now my brain is fried. I am utterly exhausted, both mentally and physically to the point where I am still trying to recover from a photowalk on a rare sunny day near the end of February.

Trying to get photos for a major project and keeping my blog going has been tough this winter. I had to invoke my spare blog, but it was worth it to continue my involvement with this very worthy cause to honour a chap whose infectious enthusiasm for film photography and silly humour enthralled, entertained and inspired us. 


More details and previews of our work can be found on the Photozine Collective website with the sale of our Mini Zines going live at 7PM UK time on March 1st via our Ko-Fi site. You can visit both using the links below and we sincerely hope you enjoy them.

PhotoZine Collective 2024 Mini Zine Collection
Ko-Fi.com - PhotoZine Collective 



Wednesday, 19 February 2025

Ferrania Orto 50

*This blog was written in February 2024 and sat for a time in case I needed it. I am working on a couple of projects and haven't anything for this week and, well, I'm glad I have a spare.

Ferrania have been working hard to increase their footprint in the film manufacturing business. I spoke of their excellent P30 black and white film in my first blog of 2024 and they have brought a new film to the market. Orto 50 has been in the stores for a few months as I write this and thanks to my friend Keith's generosity, I had a roll to try out and see what I thought of it. Orto 50 is a 50 iso film that needs a lot of light to bring out the best of it, so of course I left it until a gloomy day in winter to get my first impression of it.

Orto 50 is an "Orthochromatic" film and is only sensitive to blue and green light. It can safely be handled and processed under a red safelight in a darkroom without getting fogged or accidentally exposed. A "Panchromatic" film, such as Ilford HP5 and Kodak Tri-X, must be handled and processed in total darkness. It's a subtle difference and it can produce some funky results.

Because the film is not sensitive to red light, you can't use a red filter with it, you would just end up with black photos. It also means you can have a little fun with traffic lights and red signs. Post boxes and old red phone boxes here in the UK also show up black and if you like portraiture, bright red lipstick turns your model into a Goth.

I chose a dull day to shoot my roll of Orto 50 because I can be a little too impatient at times. I fully intend on getting more later in the year to make full use of what sunshine we get during spring and summer, but for a first use I had some fun and tested the limit of it's ability in dark, wet, cold, dull and gloomy Wigan.

I developed my roll of Orto 50 with Kodak HC110 dilution 1+119 for 30 minutes at 20 celcius. Ilford Ilfostop and Fotospeed FX30 finished my developing and I hung the film to dry overnight. I digitised it with my Nikon D700, Tamron Adaptall 2 90mm f/2.5 macro lens, Valoi 35mm film holder, Pixl-Latr and a5 led light pad. Raw files were processed using Affintiy Photo 2.

I wasn't sure about this roll given the dull day so I went long and gentle with developing and It seemed to do the trick. I was able to bring the photos to life in post processing, but see for yourself. Here's a few faves from my roll of Ferrania Orto 50 and as always I have placed them and more in an album on Flickr you can visit using the link below. I hope you enjoy them.

Ferrania Orto 50









Wednesday, 12 February 2025

TT Artisan Meter II - A new toy in my kit.

Light is a wonderful thing. It is made up of gazillions of photons, particles of pure energy produced in Stars. It is the energy we rely upon to see and to keep warm. It is also the one thing we have to be able to read in order to take a decent photo. To do this we need a system that can read the ambient or reflected light. Most "modern" cameras have a light meter built in to help us, but not all the cameras that I use have that luxury. I have to use an external light meter and the first type is something we all have, Mk.1 Eyeballs.

Our eyes are designed to detect photons that are emitted by and stars and reflected off everything in our universe. To read the light simply look around. If it's dull, your iris' will open up to let more light through your pupils and into your eyes. A camera lens works exactly the same way, open the aperture on your lens and more light can get through to your film or sensor if you like digital witchcraft!

To help us there is something called "Sunny 16". This a simple system we can all learn for those days when our chosen camera has no working built in light meter, or indeed, one at all. We look at the conditions, we watch the clouds, we observe. If it's bright and sunny with no clouds in the sky, set your camera lens to f/16, set your camera shutter speed to 1/500th of a second and have fun. I use Sunny 16 a lot and generally it works out fine. It teaches you a lot and you learn to adapt to your local conditions all year around. I have learned that here in Wigan we get a lot of 1/250th at f/11 kind of days in summer and on dark winter days it's more like 1/60th at f/8.

What do you do if the conditions are variable, sunny for a minute or three, then the clouds move in for a bit? I am notorious for forgetting stuff courtesy of my brain injury, so I went hunting for a simple memory reminder that I could keep in my pocket and bring out if I wasn't sure what settings to use. Andy's Handy Exposure Calculator is a simple, sliding scale you can make at home from paper or card. I took a leap of faith, gave it a try and it has helped me enormously over the years. You can find it at Andy's Handy Exposure Calculator where there's two versions. I use the mini and, though it may look a little "Heath Robinson DIY", it works.

On the other end of the tech there are a multitude of apps for smart phones, both Android and the infernal iPhone. I use Light Meter Free that I found on Google Play and it's a handy thing to have as a back up. I don't like reaching for my phone every time I want to take a film photo, but it was free, doesn't take much space on my phone and it's there if I need it. You can find a light meter to suit your needs in the App store and Google Play.

Most days you will see me using my Gossen Trisix selenium light meter. Selenium is a wonderful substance that creates an small electrical charge when it is exposed to light. Clever people in the 20th century learned how to use selenium to power a circuit that moves a needle and tells you how much light you have to work with. My Gossen Trisix was a gift from my friend Owen, but it is going to fail at some point. Entropy is our nemesis so I went hunting for a more modern solution that wont look out of place on my vintage cameras.

After a lot of thinking I bought a TT Artisan Meter II that fits on the shoe mount of my camera or can be hand held and hung around my neck on lanyard looped over the shoe. Made from Aluminium, it has a battery operated light meter circuit that uses Cadmium in a CdS cell in much the same way that my Gossen Trisix uses Selenium. The difference is Cadmium needs an external power source to start it's light metering capability. A CdS cell does not degrade and will last as long as batteries to power it are available.

The meter is easy to operate.
You can set your meter to your film speed, point it at what you want to photograph and there's a basic three light indicator. Red Positive means over exposure, Green Dot means you have the right exposure and Red Minus means it's underexposed. Adjust the dial on the left for your aperture and the dial on the right for your shutter speed.

It's also important to remember to stay within the maximum shutter speed on your camera and the aperture range on your lens. There's no point using a shutter speed of 1/1000th if your camera only goes to 1/200th like my Agfa Isolette or 1/300th like my Balda Baldax. The TT Artisan Meter has a shutter speed range between 1 second and 1/2000th with an aperture range between f/1 and f/22 so there's plenty to work with.

You just know I had to test all of them to see how the modern TT Artisan compares to my Mk.1 eyeballs, Andy's Handy Exposure Calculator and my Gossen Trisix. I loaded a roll of Rollei 400s into Baldy and my Olympus 35RC, and headed into the countryside near my home.

I took photos of trees, bushes and interesting shapes I found in them. I metered with the TT Artisan and my Gossen Trisix and they confirmed what Andy's handy Exposure calculator and my Mk.1. eyeballs suggested, it was a 1/250th f/11 kind of day with the odd sojourn to 1/125th and 1/60th at f/8 and f/5.6 for closer shots in the shade. I also managed to confuse myself a time or two and produced a couple of howlers.

We shall speak no more of them, I was having fun and, after finishing my roll of Rollei Retro 400s in my 35RC, I fished Baldy the Baldax from my pocket and carried on. I finished that roll too and by that time, I was done in, both mentally and physically, and headed home for a well earned rest.

I developed my film a couple of days later using my rapidly dwindling supply of Kodak HC110 1+31 dilution B for 10 minutes at 20 celcius, as per the handy table on the film box, and soon had it hanging to dry. I digitised both rolls with my Nikon D700, Tamron Adaptall 2 90mm f/2.5 macro lens, Valoi film holders, Pixl-Latr and A5 sized led light pad. I processed the RAW files with Affinity Photo 2.

I wish January wasn't so dark, wet, cold, dull and gloomy here in darkest Wigan. I got a couple of nice photos, but the rest are, well... dark, wet, cold, dull and gloomy. At least the sky was moody. I'm glad to say my new TT Artisan Light Meter handled it rather better than my Mk.1 eyeballs did.

Note to self, in winter, start using auto-focus cameras! My eyes aren't what they used to be and they weren't great to start with. I was able to save some of the slightly less blurred ones, but overall they are a good indication that this new meter is accurate and I'm happy with my purchase. Nw I need new spectacles. It never ends!

Here's a few photos of my light metering kit and some photos that I took on my walk. I can control most things, but the weather is a law unto itself here. We have had days where it was sunny at the front of our house and absolutely chucking it down with rain in the back garden. Mother Nature has a rather wicked sense of humour, but she has given me a couple of things to explore for an upcoming 'Zine I would like to contribute to. I hope you enjoy them.








 


Wednesday, 5 February 2025

127 Day - Out and about with my Kodak Brownie 127

 127 day is one of the fun challenges for film photographers to enjoy at various times of year. The idea is to shoot 127 film in a 127 format camera on a date that reads 1-27 and give this often overlooked smallest of the medium format cameras some love. I was fortunate enough to be given a Kodak Brownie 127 a couple of Christmases ago by my daughter who reckoned I would have some fun with it. She was not wrong. However, getting film was challenging to begin with.

I managed to find a couple of rolls of Rera Pan 400 127 film at Bristol Cameras here in the UK. It was tough to find 127 film at the time, I was lucky to find a few rolls with a long use by date
and took part in my first 127 day a while later. I thoroughly enjoyed that experience and wrote about it in a blog post you can read via the link below. Sadly I allowed other projects to take over my photography and my Brownie 127 was left on the shelf. That changed in January 2025.

January 27th 2025 dawned brightly and I was determined not to miss it. I loaded a roll of Rera Pan 400 into my Kodak Brownie 127 and headed into town. My compositions are nothing special, just my favourite buildings in town. The fact I took these photos with a 1950's bakelite camera that has a small viewfinder, a meniscus lens and one setting of "sort of" 1/50th at "kind of" f/14 and you have a recipe for an hour or two of fun.

The Kodak Brownie was the "point and shoot" camera everyone could afford in the 1950's. Bakelite was the miracle plastic that was cheap to manufacture and could be moulded to any shape you wanted, within reason of course. The Kodak Brownie 127 was made here in the UK and over 250,000 were exported to the USA and Canada between May 1953 and September 1954, making it one of Kodak's most popular cameras. That's not bad for a basic camera.

It's also a quarter of a million people who perhaps got their first taste of film photography with a Kodak Brownie 127. Many were used for a while and either discarded, given away or just left in a drawer or a box in the loft, never to see the light of day again. They could well be still out there, waiting for a new custodian. Others were used to death before becoming a much loved ornament on a shelf, proudly displayed alongside more technically advanced cameras as the one that started it all.

My Brownie was found in a second hand shop and has been given a new lease on life thanks to my daughters thoughtfulness. To be honest I love its simplicity and the photos, well, see for yourself! It didn't take long to shoot 8, yes 8 photos! There's no snapping away like a tourist with this bad boy. I picked my shots and just managed to get the last of the light before the rain came and sent me home, happy that I had taken part in the first 127 day of 2025.

I developed my roll of Rera Pan 400 in Kodak HC 110 1+31 dilution B for 6 minutes at 20 celcius and soon had it hanging to dry in my bathroom. I digitised it with my Nikon D700, Tamron Adaptall 2 90mm f/2.5 macro lens, Pixl-Latr and A5 size led light pad. I processed the RAW files with Affinity Photo 2.

Here's my 8 photos from my roll of Rera Pan 400 shot using my Kodak Brownie 127 for the first 127 day of 2025. I am happy with what I achieved on the day and will be doing it again when us Brits get our 127 day on the 12th July, (12-7 - get it?). I have more 127 film in my fridge, but I'm not too worried about 127 film being a scarce anymore. The good folks at Shanghai Film are producing Shanghai 100 GP3 127 film which is available from many retailers around the world. Huzzah! As always I have placed all my photos in an album on my Flickr account you can visit using the link below. I hope you enjoy them.

127 Day - 27th January 2025
Kodak Brownie 127











Wednesday, 29 January 2025

Olympus OM-2 - Rollei Superpan 200

 I haven't used my OM-2 MD for a while, so I decided it was time to change that and loaded a roll of Rollei Superpan 200 into it and went for a wander to see what I could find. Using a 200 iso film in January can be a little daunting and I asked the Photography Gods to help a guy out and give me a little sunshine to play with. Thankfully they listened and blessed me with a beautiful sunny day in mid January. It was a two part walk as I had shot a roll of Santacolor 100 with my OM10 before I switched to my OM-2 MD and Rollei Superpan 200.

I decided to explore contrast as the shadows lengthened in the afternoon winter sunshine. I fitted an orange filter to my Zuiko 50mm f/1.8, set my OM-2 MD to aperture priority and made my way back into Wigan town centre from Wigan North Western Railway Station. The low winter sunshine on this fine afternoon was creating shadows as it kissed the buildings on either side of Wallgate. I was enjoying my walk, but was starting to feel tired and, after shooting half my roll of Rollei Superpan 200, I decided to head for home and shoot the remainder of my film another day.

That day was the very next day and I made my way to Mesnes Park to polish off the second half of my roll of Rollei Superpan. It seemed that the Park had terrible light on one side and interesting light near the old Mill. I made my way to the Mill and had a nostalgic feeling as it was once the construction and engineering campus of Wigan & Leigh College.

It's a sad sight now as the current owners are content to let the Mill fall down, only interested in the value of the land upon which it stands. I took half a dozen or so photos of the Mill from near and far and bracketed a couple to experiment with depth of field before moving on. I captured a few photos of the bandstand, the Pavilion and the duck pond to finish off my film and I popped my OM-2 back in my bag, ready to come home.

I developed my film a few days later in Kodak HC-110 1+31 dilution B for 6 minutes at 20 celcius and soon had it hanging to dry in my bathroom. I digitised it with my Nikon D700, Tamron Adaptall 2 90mm f/2.5 macro lens, Valoi 35mm film holder, Pixl-Latr and A5 size led light source. I processed the RAW files with Affinity Photo 2.

The difference in light on both days was perfectly portrayed in my photos. My shots around the town centre on a sunny afternoon are full of contrast and using an orange filter was the right choice for Rollei Superpan in the conditions we had that day. My photos in the park could have done without the orange filter as there wasn't enough light to shoot with it, but soft lad here left it on and didn't realise until I was almost done for the day. D'Oh!
That nostalgic feeling I experienced at the Mill blinded me to into not paying proper attention and I made a silly mistake, one that I really shouldn't be making now I have a few years experience behind me.

It wasn't a total bust as I did get some useable shots, including one of the carved bench dedicated to William Higham who served in the RAF during WW2. Mr Higham passed away a few years ago and his service is remembered by family and friends with this beautifully carved bench that depicts a Wellington Bomber in flight. We owe Mr Higham and his generation a huge debt of gratitude that we may never be able to repay. It's nice to be able to sit for a moment, think of them and say "Thank you for your service."

I really enjoyed using my Olympus OM-2 MD with Zuiko 50mm f/1.8 lens again. It's been a while since I last took it out and it's not going to be long before it comes out again. A couple of years ago it was never out of my bag and my other cameras weren't getting used as often because of it. It may be a 50 year old camera, but Olympus got it right back in the mid 70's and it still does the business today. I still need to work on remembering stuff, but we knew that last year and it will probably be the same next year too.

Here's a few of my favourite photos from my roll of Rollei Superpan 200 shot with my OM-2 MD. I have placed them and more in an album on Flickr you can visit using the link below. I hope you enjoy them.

Rollei Superpan 200 - Olympus OM-2 MD 









Wednesday, 22 January 2025

Five Years

Five years ago, on Wednesday the 22nd January 2020, I posted my debut blog and a lot has happened in that time. I have grown as a photographer and learned from my friends in the photography community the skills I have come to rely upon as I share my film photography with the world. I have met and engaged with people I have come to trust and count as friends and frankly, it's made me a better person too.

As my long term readers will know, when I came back to film in 2017 it was to help me to recover from a stroke. My Doctor agreed that it would be good exercise for the old grey matter, the repetitive nature of photography definitely counted as Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and I haven't looked back. A few people thought I wouldn't keep it up, with some agreement from myself as I am notorious for losing interest in things, yet here we are. I'm still clicking that shutter and enjoying every moment of it.

As with every aspect of life, my photography has had its share of ups and downs over the years. Cameras have failed, I have fixed a couple of rolls before developing and missed focus a lot. I have been thoroughly disillusioned at times, mostly due to dumb mistakes I have made, but the good times have far outweighed the bad.

I have sold a photo, become a contributor to a series of photo 'zines and published a book just for my wife. I have contributed articles to casualphotophile.com and won a camera from PetaPixel.com that has made me learn to slow down and appreciate the process. I also inspired my grandchildren to give photography a try and I'm looking forward to seeing how they fare in the coming years, they are showing their talent is not being wasted. Above all else I have had fun, which is why we have hobbies in the first place.

I am also at a crossroads with my photography and it's mostly to do with gear. I have collected a lot of stuff and need to slim down and get better organised. I have things that I am just not using. Things I bought on my journey into photography, which were a good idea at the time, that only had a short life in my regular rotation. It's time to move them on and let someone else enjoy them. In the new year I will be sorting through my gear and compiling a list of things to sell.

There's a few things I am going to continue in the coming years. I have enjoyed being a part of the Frugal Film Project over the last few years and that will continue in 2025. It makes me get out to take photos and it's a lot of fun, even when I don't get it right. Baldy the Baldax taught me a lot in 2024, especially about the basic principles of photography. KISS theory works, folks. "Keep It Simple Stupid!" is a mantra we could all use a little more.

I am also going to keep contributing to the Zines produced in honour of John Whitmore to raise money for Asthma + Lung UK. I have enjoyed being a part of the Photo Zine Collective, we have only just got started and are growing as we go along. Our aim is to promote not just our 'Zines, but those of our fellow photographers too. We aren't a bunch of grumpy old men with cameras, we have several women amongst our number and I would like more women to become involved. There are a lot of great women out there enjoying their photography and not getting the recognition they deserve for it. I will post links below.

I also plan on producing a 'Zine this year. It's been in the planning stages for quite some time, but crippling angst has not been my best pal when it comes to getting things done. That changes this year. I know it will always be with me, but I can win a battle or two along the way like I did when I attended the Mersey Meet Photo Walk. I know it's going to be a tough battle ahead, but the end result will see my photography being out there in print!

That brings me to this goal that I have set for myself. I plan on finally getting my education in darkroom printing started. I have the gear, just not the room until I de-clutter and move stuff on to pastures new. I do this in the hope that I can sell a few prints and hopefully brighten someones wall. I also know I am nowhere near the level of the likes of Ansel Adams. I am not cheeky enough to charge hundreds for a print, but we all start somewhere.

That's my five year review and plans for the years ahead as I continue my journey into photography. It's good to see how far I have come and if the next five years is as enjoyable as the last five years, I will be a happy man. Here's a few of my favourite photos taken over the last five years. As for the next five years, I will be placing my photos on my Flickr account and if you fancy taking a look at what I have achieved thus far, you can visit using the link below. I hope you enjoy them.

Photozine Collective
Jim Graves Flickr














Afga Isolette I - Ilford FP4+

I have waxed lyrical about my fondness for my Agfa Isolette I in the past. They are cheap to buy and a great way into medium format for anyo...